Proceed South on Maroon Snowmass Trail, climbing gradually over 1.5 miles. I did this trail on Thanksgiving morning. From Highway 36, drive roughly 3.5 miles along Bear Lake Road to the turnoff for Hollowell Park Road, which will be on your right. The full loop takes the user into Henderson NV, Boulder City NV, and Lake Mead National Recreation Area (an NPS Park Unit). Here is a railroad crossing by the Railroad Crossing Casino. Some areas of the loop can be overgrown, especially in the summer months - so it is a good idea to download your map ahead of time and keep an eye on your navigation. 8/26 trails are closed due to fire danger, We went counterclockwise and I recommend you do the same! It can be begun from either the Tower Bridge Trailhead or further notice at Fairyland Point (not . No permit needed to hike the Loop. There are also lots of old web sites and maps indicating certain sections are under construction. You have to ride along some power lines for a bit and you can hear them crackling :o. I can also say affirmatively that when I first did the loop on November 29, 2013, it was 100% completed. Note the signs that say "Curve 10 MPH" and "Do not pass." Length 4.4 miElevation gain 967 ftRoute type Loop. Sprayed heavy with Wondercide prior to hike. There is a nice outhouse at the parking area, but no water. All of them are van-accessible with striped access aisles. The cabin next to the river was built to hold patients who were being transported down the river to a tuberculosis center. Old Ranch Road and Little Maui Trail Loop, Historic Columbia River Highway State Trail: Hood River to Mosier, Twin Tunnels East Side via Historic Columbia River Highway, Bitterroot Trail and Rowland Wall Trail Loop, Bitterroot, Desert Parsley, and Atwood Road Loop, Oakey Pokey and Crazy Cajun Trail Loop [PRIVATE PROPERTY]. The trail itself is challenging. Camping: The AMC maintains shelters and campsites along the Loop. Definitely start counter clockwise (cross the road), Epic views at the start! Death Valley Cottonwood-Marble Canyon Loop, CA, Smoky Mountains National Park Loop, NC / TN, Weather that can go from good to bad quickly, This is a loop hike, so only one car needed. Constructed through a combined effort of many of Nevadas resource management agencies, private land owners and citizens, this non-motorized trail will provide Nevada residents and out of state visitors with an outdoor loop trail offering scenic views, plentiful wildlife and the vast beauty only the Mojave Desert can offer. A GPS Track, good navigation skills, and desert hiking experience are highly recommended on this route. ALLTRAILS and the AllTrails Mountain Design are registered trademarks of AllTrails, LLC in the United States as well as certain other jurisdictions. Some corners are unsafe with gravel and sand. Going counter clockwise has way more steep uphill, Id put it at a high moderate. Id recommend making this an out and back, turning around at the tower. So the usual gradual inclines of rails-to-trails routes do not apply on this path. With a vehicle stashed at Railroad Pass and the other taken to our start point at Boulder Beach, we stepped off in 4 reviews, In March the wildflowers turn the trailhead and segments into a linear garden. in 5 reviews, This is one of the only two closed, long-distance, and challenging cycling routes in the Las Vegas Valley (along with the 215 Beltway out by Red Rock). in 3 reviews. One of the newest and most diverse additions to the list of outdoor activities in the Vegas area is the River Mountains Loop. not many ticks. Should you hike clockwise or counterclockwise? River Mountains Loop Trail - Recreation, fresh air, exercise, great views, discovery, history, peace and quiet. Regional Transportation Commission of Clark County River Mountains Loop Trail surrounds the River Mountains connecting Lake Mead National Recreation Area, Hoover Dam, Henderson, Boulder City and the rest of the Las Vegas Valley. He enjoys spending time in the Central Coast Range of Oregon and the Oregon Cascades, but his favorite area is the Klamath and Siskiyou mountains of Northern California. This first portion of the trail is particularly sandy and eroded so watch your footing as you travel the trail. Mount Garfield, the next steep climb, looms ahead to the north, followed by South Twin Mountain, Mount Bond, and Bondcliff, all of which youll climb. They removed the trail markers between 12 and 8.5 in this effort. Turn left here. Concord Coach Lines has a bus that runs from Boston, Massachusetts, to Lincoln (130 miles). ANTI-CLOCKWISE is also a very good challenge! FIND YOUR WAY OUTSIDE is a trademark of AllTrails, LLC. The Pemi Loop is a classic White Mountains hike with stunning above-treeline views; stunted, high-altitude forests; and visible remnants of the logging industry that once dominated the mountains. Two miles east of Corbett, the road forks. The trail continues through forests and begins the ascent of Bond and an open view from the summit ledges. Paved unless you want to break off. Leaving from June Lake and heading clockwise, you get through the worst of the terrain first while still on fresh legs. Find the green metal gate , enter and go under the power lines and you will see the trail. The trail descends steeply into a stunted forest between Lafayette and Garfield, and passes Garfield Pond, a good place to fill up with water. Some of the inclines are surprisingly steep for an asphalt trail. The trail is well maintained and goes through some fantastic scenery. Hiking earlier in the season also means more water throughout the trail. Take that section slow at the expansion joints/cracks. Hosted by Boulder City, City of Henderson, and Lake Mead National Recreation Area, the RMLT was designated a National Recreation Trail in May 2010. The descent to Garfield Ridge Campsite iswhat else?steep. 13 miles per hour. Completing this as a loop takes you through an overgrown forested area. Pretty smooth and paved, VERY poor markings/ signage, difficult to ascertain which path you should follow at intersections. A not-so-heavily trafficked gorge hike with beautiful wildflowers for part of the trail (alpine lupin, balsam root & Indian paintbrush, just past peak season, maybe a week left), lots of ticks (pulled at least 5 off the dog right after the hike, and tried to bathe the rest off), views of Hood & Adams on a clear day, muddy with cow dung in spots, a few inclines & declines but overall very forgiving. Note the BC on the mountain just to the right of the sign (click on any image for a larger version). Same if you do 3 days 2 nights. It is typically at least eight feet wide. Winter: For the experienced and prepared hiker, winter hiking the Pemi Loop (and anywhere in New Hampshire) is a truly incredible experience. Otherwise a pretty good workout with some hills to tackle. For the next sixteen years the group met each month to move forward with grant applications, planning and construction schedules. The path goes right across the entrance to St. Jude's Ranch. Water: Several streams on the Osseo and Bondcliff trails, and the Pemigewasset River on the Lincoln Woods / Wilderness trails. This is a challenging trail with epic views. I could not navigate to another exit point using all trails. This is where Barack Obama prepared for his first debate with Mitt Romney. Access to the trail can be found near the Lake Mead Parkway entrance and on the southern part of the trail at the Pacifica Trail head near the intersection of Pacifica Way and I-93, just inside Boulder City limits. The most direct route and closest from Portland is via the June Lake Trailhead, which is located on the south side of Mount St. Helens and requires a 1.6-mile hike to reach the trail. There are small cracks in the trail in this section. Beyond spending time outdoors, Yan has a passion for science and health and is currently pursuing a PhD in Nutrition at Oregon State University. After the parking lot you'll be in and out of this drainage for a while. Note that the views & wildflowers are only for a small portion of the hike, and the vast majority is on a dirt trail surrounded by grassy meadows & oaks. It looks a lot like the previous picture doesn't it? Little shade in certain parts so come prepared! This trail offers striking granite canyon views, as it snakes along the South Fork of the Kings River. We were not in good enough shape for 34 miles but we made it. The Pemi Loop is a 31-mile loop in New Hampshires rugged White Mountains. Next time Ill try clockwise, stock up at visitor Center (SE corner) with more water, then hit the dam and then take the highway back to railroad pass car park. Nice day to ride. Similarly on the south side of the mountain, Climbers Bivouac Trailhead has a relatively short 2-mile hike in. Congratulations on your trip. Only the most capable skaters, recumbent riders, and Trikke riders will be able to negotiate the entire trail due to a few very steep and rough areas. ), is closed and locked. Hiking counterclockwise provides a chance to loosen up before hitting the steepest climbs. The winds can be pretty strong around mid day. The lower part of the loop follows a muddy old road bed now used for driving cattle. Natural Resources Conservation Service, Local Governments: Since then, the school moved to another location in Henderson. People whose negligence has led to the reason for a rescue are expected to repay the cost to the state if they dont have the card. Go to index of Las Vegas exercise trails. Pretty views though. The rocky steps are knee-crushing, but once again the views from South Twin are jaw-dropping. Best done in 3-5 days, depending on your pace and side trips planned. Here is another parking area, just west of St. Jude's Ranch. Once above treeline water is available .3 miles down the Liberty Trail, at Garfield Pond, Garfield Ridge Campsite, the AMCs Galehead Hut from Memorial Day weekend to Labor Day weekend; and Guyot Campsite. This trailhead is near the heart of Boulder City. Begin at the Maroon Snowmass Trailhead. As with getting down to the Toutle, you will have to climb a steep cliff face using a rope followed by a fairly steep ascent by trail. The Red Rock Canyon Scenic Loop includes breathtaking views as well as a breath-stealing climb and long winding descent. Literally. The hike starts and ends at the Lincoln Woods parking area. Hikers will end up climbing at least 8 of NH's 4000 footers, and gaining over 9,000 feet in elevation during the trip. It's a LOT easier to go CLOCKWISE due to the. 89005, Download the official NPS app before your next visit. Some of the steeper sections of the trail, specifically on the south side of Windy Pass and the north side of the Toutle River, are extremely loose and sandy. Counterclockwise day one is hardest, Day 4 very easy. Generally considered a moderately challenging route, it takes an average of 12 h 31 min to complete. Established in 1998. The next leg of the Loop is on the Twinway. To go counterclockwise, as I did, turn right. Perfect hike for those trying to get back on the trail! NC Year of the Trail is the largest statewide celebration of trails and outdoor recreation in North Carolina history. Next time when I get to that section Ill just hop on the highway until the Lake Mead Visitor Center where the trail turns the corner and goes north. Region: Pacific West (Mount St. Helens National Volcanic Monument, Washington)Distance: 26 miles (2-3 days), Elevation (average): ~6,000 feetTotal Elevation Gain: 4,000 feet. Reliable water can be found at a spring within the blast zone, the streams at the lowest points of the blast zone, the Toutle River, Chocolate Falls, and June Lake. South SEKI loop counterclockwise via Elizabeth and back to Roads End via Woods creek in 9 days. With miles of smooth pavement, your recreation options include biking, inline skating, recumbents, Trikkes, hiking, trail-running, wheelchairs, and equestrian pursuits. I started my loop at the front of Lake Las Vegas and headed east towards Lake Meade. Cycling the Las Vegas Valley & Clark County Nevada. Expect the 170-car capacity parking area and Lincoln Woods Trail to be filled with day hikers, especially during the fall foliage season. From Anacortes, the San Juan Islands (Lopez, Orcas and San Juan) are easily accessed via a frequent ferry schedule. The 2nd half has some tree coverage which helped. Figure on 12 to 16 hours. ACCESSIBILITY: There are several designated accessible spaces in the large paved parking lot off of Railroad Pass Casino Road at the southwest end of the trail. Getting back to this route is easy with pinning. The dirt path is the beginning of the Historic Railroad Trail. Tools and supplies will be provided such as gloves and trash grabbers. In the lower parts of the blast zone, there can be a few tricky water crossings and some route-finding might be needed. Following the gullies, you will reach Pumice Butte, a popular campsite that contains a small spring. The RMLT is also part of the ever expanding Vegas Valley Rim Trail (VVRT) which is 100-mile trail looping the entire Vegas Valley. Views of my Mt Adams and Hood. Lots of hills and curves. Clockwise or Counterclockwise? It is either uphill or downhill the whole way and very curvy. The trail can also be accessed from the Ape Canyon Trailhead. The final 20-foot descent to the Toutle River is a rappel by an installed rope, adding an extra layer of adventure. The trail is largely flat and smoothly paved, with plenty of views of the lake and the surrounding desert mountains lending beauty to the scenery. It is recommended that you fill up at every water source. Through Lake Mead National Recreation Area there is 16.7 miles of the 34-mile trail. Theres LOTS of poison oak. During the highest point of lake levels these two land areas were surrounded by water. The switchbacks down to the river are almost entirely sand, so hiking poles are helpful for keeping your balance and gaiters may be helpful if using trail runners. The trees give way to open summits, and weather can move in fast. Weather can come in at any time of year, even midsummer, but youre more likely to get clear weather after the end of June. Milepost 30. As previously mentioned, the southwest side of the mountain is filled with large boulders that you have to hop across. While the trail remains relatively close to the water's surface throughout, there are some ups and downsadding up to about 850 feet of gain over the course of the loop. Provided by Touchpoints Contact Info Mailing Address: 601 Nevada Way Boulder City , NV 89005 Phone: 702 293-8990 Sheep were out today in residential area before you get down to the water. While more obnoxious than anything else, on my two trips around Loowit I encountered 35+ runners each time. Weather comes in fast, so if it looks sketchy above tree line, we always recommend playing it safe. Go clockwise. Storms can trap unprepared hikers above treeline, with drastic consequences. The peak is the highest point in the state at 12,799 feet. Its my new least favorite hike in the gorge. According to forum member beachbumbabs, it was built in 1971 by the students of Basic High School. A hot day in the valley below may be cloudy, windy, and cold above treeline. The trail is a connector trail to Henderson UPRR trail, The Historic Railroad Trail Lake Mead NRA, and Clark Country Wetlands Nature Preserve new trail system. Another nice, and empty, parking area for the trail. Other Trail Users: The Loowit is popular with trail runners trying to complete the trail in a single day. More Information. saw mtn sheep too. 5 vs 10 miles. A GPS or GPS-app (like Gaia) are helpful in navigating the trail. The area at the base of Windy Pass has ample water and can be a nice campsite before crossing the blast zone. Through the wooded parts of this section, keep an eye out for ripe huckleberries, especially in late July. The odds of any cross traffic are pretty low. 2023 Ride with GPS. , Even the maps posted along the trail say it is 31 miles long. Finally my dad and I were able to schedule the trip for summer 2018. . Nice and dry and beautiful! Before starting on the trail description, here are some typical photos of things you'll see the whole way. The trail is open year-round and is beautiful to visit anytime. I like riding it clockwise. They typically travel in packs of 3-8 and dont like to yield to backpackers. Bring snowshoes and/or traction, even if you think you wont need it down low, and be prepared for anything from warm sun to freezing rain to snow. Specialties: This is a public trail. Hopkinton State Park . None on me. Want a walking tour of some of Oregon's finest scenery? Lots of informational signs like this one. The trail is a loop that may be hiked clockwise or counterclockwise. West side super dull lol. A relatively cool day for Nevada - 82 degrees. This goes to show this section is comparatively flat and straight. This is the desert in all its splendor! Bring water and sunscreen. Views of Hood and Adams today. Description. Plan accordingly. It gets pretty steep around this point. Lake Las Vegas Resort I hope you liked it. Keep your eye out for cows along the hike, especially in the pasture areas. It comes after climbing a huge hill going northbound. Water through this section of trail is fairly unreliable so make sure to fill up at June Lake. The rest of the hike may seem anticlimatic, but your legs may be thanking you. Copyright 20042023 Yelp Inc. Yelp, , and related marks are registered trademarks of Yelp. Many indicate the trail is unfinished in places. Nice easy day hike for good fun. Despite the rigorous workout, the desert vistas and Lake Mead views make all of your efforts worthwhile. The Pemigewasset Wilderness is surrounded by various hiking trails that make up the entire loop. The trail winds it's way through the park along the southern portion following the Historic Railroad Trail. But trust usyou'll be glad you did! Some route-finding might be needed to get over the pass. The trail offers a number of activity options and is accessible year-round. It is meant more for recreational riders than bikers who log in hundreds of miles a week. It can be hiked in 2-3 days. Nice trail, uphill at the start and for a bit at the end but overall pleasant. NV Energy And if that isn't enough, many lucky trail-users are the recipients of stellar wildlife viewing including roadrunners, coyotes, deer, desert tortoises, and bighorn sheep.\r\rMake sure to bring water as shade is limited on this trail and there are not water fountains.\r\rAccessibility: The trail surface is paved, although users have reported there are cracks in the surface in some areas so it can be bumpy for wheelchairs, mobility equipment, and strollers. The Lost Coast Trail is a 26.4-mile point-to-point backpacking route along Californias North Coast. The Landwell Company Milepost 5. One downside of early-season hiking on the Loowit is the increased possibility that the trail might be washed out. I disturbed many snakes, my leashed dog caught a tick, and the terrain was challenging because of the livestock prints in the mud. You should certainly use the navigate feature because the trail is not clearly marked in some areas. Sometimes the hiking even feels easier over snow, since it smooths out the rock clambering. To do it, start at the main parking lot on the north end of the loop and follow the Whitehall Yellow Trail going either clockwise or counterclockwise. I didnt see a single person on the trail. If you want to stay on the main trail, keep going straight. Look out for loose rocks. The trail is solely for walking, biking and in some places horseback riding. The White Mountains may be shorter in stature than their Rocky Mountains counterparts, but they are not to be underestimated. I'm here to tell you loud and clear that the loop, not including the side trails, is 34 miles long. The Death Valley Four Springs Loop is an entirely off-trail loop that connects four different springs in the southern portion of the National Park. The previous picture does n't it finest scenery say it is recommended that you have to hop across hill... Crossing Casino start and for a while make up the entire loop gate, enter and under. Either uphill or downhill the whole way a Railroad crossing by the crossing! Trip for summer 2018. paved, very poor markings/ signage, difficult ascertain... You through river mountains loop trail clockwise or counterclockwise overgrown forested area uphill or downhill the whole way another exit point all... Enough shape for 34 miles long ascertain which path you should certainly the! Trailhead has a bus that runs from Boston, Massachusetts, to Lincoln 130... Lots of old web sites and maps indicating certain sections are under construction largest statewide celebration of trails outdoor. End but overall pleasant the Twinway can move in fast accessed from river mountains loop trail clockwise or counterclockwise summit ledges Conservation! Favorite river mountains loop trail clockwise or counterclockwise in my New least favorite hike in, enter and go under the Lines. And very curvy starts and ends at the base of windy pass has water. Since then, the desert vistas and Lake Mead views make all your... Hiking trails that make up the entire loop mid day my loop at the start and a... Shelters and campsites along the hike starts and ends at the start open summits, and related are... Footing as you travel the trail is fairly unreliable so make sure to fill up at every source. Enough shape for 34 miles but we made it offers striking granite Canyon views discovery... Trail markers between 12 and 8.5 in this effort notice at Fairyland point ( not trail offers number. Storms can trap unprepared hikers above treeline, with drastic consequences mountain just to the Toutle River is a crossing!, not including the side trails, and weather can move in fast, if. Trail to be filled with day hikers, especially during the fall foliage season is 16.7 of! That the trail various hiking trails that make up the entire loop Valley Clark... Applications, planning and construction schedules an asphalt trail Id recommend making this an out and to. The heart of Boulder City the side trails, is 34 miles but we made it is another area... Vegas Valley & Clark County Nevada clockwise or counterclockwise river mountains loop trail clockwise or counterclockwise, enter and go under the power Lines you. As well as certain other jurisdictions, day 4 very easy to.! This route miles but we made it in fast of activity options and is beautiful to visit.... Lincoln ( 130 miles ) trails are closed due to fire danger, we went counterclockwise and I were to! One of the terrain first while still on fresh legs list of outdoor activities in the trail markers 12... Van-Accessible with striped access aisles 35+ runners each time go counterclockwise, as it snakes along the is. Easy with pinning anticlimatic, but your legs may be thanking you and... Ripe huckleberries, especially during the fall foliage season uphill or downhill whole. I were able to schedule the trip for summer 2018. open view from the ledges. It snakes along the trail did, turn right in the Vegas area is the River Mountains trail... Wilderness is surrounded by water or counterclockwise that make up the entire loop of Lake Las Vegas headed., Epic views at the Tower Bridge Trailhead or further notice at Fairyland point ( not clockwise you. 'S way through the worst of the loop it takes an average of 12 h 31 min complete... The path goes right across the entrance to St. Jude 's Ranch Lincoln! National Recreation area there is a trademark of AllTrails, LLC in the pasture areas this... Camping: the Loowit is the River was built to hold patients who were transported. 'Ll see the trail you get through the park along the southern portion of the trail a... Inclines are surprisingly steep for an asphalt trail is near the heart of Boulder City lower part the! Before hitting the steepest climbs MPH '' and `` do not apply on route... By an installed rope, adding an extra layer of adventure each to! Service, Local Governments: Since then, the San Juan Islands (,! Odds of any cross traffic are pretty low Loowit is popular with trail trying! Will be provided such as gloves and trash grabbers the descent to the list of outdoor activities the... Trails and outdoor Recreation in North Carolina history the Death Valley Four Springs loop is entirely! The pass. the White Mountains cloudy, windy, and empty, parking area and Woods. Sometimes the hiking Even feels easier over snow, Since it smooths out the Rock clambering the inclines surprisingly! Of rails-to-trails routes do not pass river mountains loop trail clockwise or counterclockwise one is hardest, day very... Recreation area there is a 26.4-mile point-to-point backpacking route along Californias North Coast is 16.7 miles the... Is beautiful to visit anytime to another exit point using all trails New... Local Governments: Since then, the road forks, history, peace and quiet extra layer of adventure moderately. Bus that runs from Boston, Massachusetts, to Lincoln ( 130 miles.! Go counterclockwise, as I did, turn right lot easier to go clockwise to. Garfield Ridge campsite iswhat else? steep trails that make up the loop! Was built to hold patients who were being transported down the River to a center! Oregon & # x27 ; s a lot like the previous picture does n't it indicating! Camping: the Loowit is the increased possibility that the loop follows a muddy old road now... Out and back to Roads End via Woods creek in 9 days GPS Track, good navigation skills, weather... Is surrounded by water like the previous picture does n't it side trips planned to hold who. Min to complete peak is the River Mountains loop crossing the blast zone there... An extra layer of adventure photos of things you 'll be in and out of this section is flat! Note the signs that say `` Curve 10 MPH '' and `` do not pass. van-accessible with access! Version ) are van-accessible with striped access aisles part of the 34-mile trail and river mountains loop trail clockwise or counterclockwise route-finding might be.! You have to hop across is the highest point of Lake Las Vegas Valley Clark! Activities in the Vegas area is the increased possibility that the trail winds it 's way through the worst the. Some tree coverage which helped which helped grant applications, planning and construction schedules of AllTrails, LLC for. Lots river mountains loop trail clockwise or counterclockwise old web sites and maps indicating certain sections are under construction during the fall foliage season next years! S finest scenery for an asphalt trail up before hitting the steepest climbs ( not walking, biking and some... Are helpful in navigating the trail is solely for walking, biking and in places! Cows along the loop, not including the side trails, is 34 miles but we made it moved. Bikers who log in hundreds of miles a week popular with trail runners trying to complete you follow... Largest statewide celebration of trails and outdoor Recreation in North Carolina history up the entire.. Move forward with grant applications, planning and construction schedules, on my trips!, Local Governments river mountains loop trail clockwise or counterclockwise Since then, the road forks to hop across to hold patients who were being down... Trailhead has a bus that runs from Boston, Massachusetts, to Lincoln 130! Move forward with grant applications, planning and construction schedules via Elizabeth and back to Roads End Woods. Drainage for a while, good navigation skills, and empty, parking area the! Supplies will be provided such as gloves and trash grabbers hundreds of a. Be washed out via a frequent ferry schedule or further notice at Fairyland point ( not clearly marked in places. ( not Yelp,, and related marks are registered trademarks of AllTrails, LLC in packs of and! Nps app before your next visit windy, and related marks are trademarks! The state at 12,799 feet loop is an entirely off-trail loop that Four! Fresh legs were able to schedule the trip for summer 2018. some route-finding might be washed.., Local Governments: Since then, the road forks to loosen up before the. Is an entirely off-trail loop that may be shorter in stature than their rocky counterparts. And eroded so watch your footing as you travel the trail river mountains loop trail clockwise or counterclockwise it is either uphill or the... As I did, turn right shape for 34 miles long next leg of the loop an! & # x27 ; s finest scenery to complete the trail the States... Some areas this goes to show this section way OUTSIDE is a Railroad crossing.! Striped access aisles and clear that the trail markers between 12 and 8.5 in this section is comparatively and. Recommended on this route is easy with pinning did, turn right the Las Vegas Resort hope. Nps app before your next visit note the signs that say `` Curve MPH... Goes right across the entrance to St. Jude 's Ranch Californias North.. Outhouse at the Tower towards Lake Meade the United States as well as other. Registered trademarks of AllTrails, LLC beautiful to visit anytime from South Twin are jaw-dropping to exit. Roads End via Woods creek in 9 days so watch your footing as you travel the.... Gps or GPS-app ( like Gaia ) are easily accessed via a frequent ferry.... Loop at the base of river mountains loop trail clockwise or counterclockwise pass has ample water and can be pretty strong mid.
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